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LKK- 03-12-2007
I've thought about this topic for a while. Let's work up a listing of who calls whom what. Some of these terms of address change throughout the series, so let's use the last story arc as our most current name addressing.

I'll start the list. You add changes & corrections. (I haven't done any research. This is just from memory.) I'll try and list the names in the same order each time.

Mai
--- Naru
--- Bou-san
--- Ayako
--- John
--- Masako
--- Lin-san
--- Yasuhara-san

Naru
--- Mai
--- Bou-san
--- Matsuzuki-san (sp?)
--- John
--- Hara-san
--- Lin
--- Yasuhara-san

Bou-san
--- Mai
--- Naru-bou, Naru, Naru-chan (Still uses all 3 interchangeably)
--- Ayako
--- John
--- Masako
--- Lin-san
--- ??? (Yasuhara)

Ayako
--- Mai
--- Naru, Naru-chan (Still uses both interchangeably)
--- Bou-san
--- ??? (John)
--- Masako
--- ??? (Lin)
--- ??? (Yasuhara)

John
--- Mai-san
--- Shibuya-san
--- ??? (Bou-san)
--- ??? (Ayako)
--- ??? (Masako)
--- ??? (Lin)
--- ??? (Yasuhara)

Masako
--- Mai-san
--- Naru
--- ??? (Bou-san)
--- ??? (John)
--- Matsuzuki-san
--- ??? (Lin)
--- ??? (Yasuhara)

Lin
--- Taniyama-san
--- Naru / Noll
--- Takigawa-san
--- ??? (Ayako)
--- Brown-san
--- ??? (Masako)
--- ??? (Yasuhara)

Yasuhara
--- Taniyama-san
--- Shibuya-san
--- ??? (Bou-san)
--- ??? (Ayako)
--- ??? (John)
--- ??? (Masako)
--- ??? (Lin)

honeysempai- 03-12-2007
Matsuzaki Ayako.

Bou-san calls Yasuhara - Shounen.

Ayako calls John= John. Yasuhara = i think yasuhara-san. Lin= Lin-san

John, --- his family name i think (Bou-san)
--- her family name (Ayako)
--- hara-san (Masako)
--- lin-san (Lin)
--- ??? (Yasuhara)

Masako
--- Matsuzuki-san
--- lin-san (Lin)

Yasuhara
--- his family name (Bou-san)
--- her family name (Ayako)
--- i think hara-san (Masako)
--- i think lin-san(Lin)








Runesque- 03-12-2007
Let's not forget that, following the Bloody Labyrinth arc, Masako has been addressing Mai without the -san honorific. She has also dropped her formal speech in conversations with her. Not to get off-topic, but on the subject of formal speech, I find it amusing that anime!Naru (can't speak for the manga since I don't have the Japanese version but I suppose it will be similar) shifts between formal and informal when addressing the group. Now when he gets into explaining mode, he doesn't address any individual in specific but adjusts his speech correspondingly for the individual that raises the last remark/question. If memory serves correctly, a simple "Then that means..." has been seen to trigger a formality shift. Kind of awkward?

Getting back on topic. You don't think a certain someone is missing from your list? wink.gif Sadly, I'm not GH novels-savvy so I'm going to pose some questions instead. How does Gene address Mai and Naru? If Lin now calls Noll/Oliver "Naru" what would he have called Gene? Jin? LOL somehow it doesn't fit... Does Gene interact with anyone else besides Mai and Naru in the novels?

LKK- 03-13-2007
My Japanese is non-existent. I can't tell the difference between crass, rude insulting speech and highly formal speech. I think it's cool that Naru does what you say though. The only thing I have noticed about Naru's speech is that he tends to refer himself using "boku" rather than the more arrogant and common for his age and gender "ore".

As we know, Gene calls Mai without an honorific and has done so from the very beginning.

Gene call Naru "Noll". Apparently Gene is the one who first called Oliver "Noll" and others picked it up from him. At least that's the impression I get from novel readers.

What would Lin call Gene? I assume that Lin would call him Gene since he uses Noll and Madoka. But to be honest I really don't know.

Gene doesn't interact with anyone other than Noll and Mai as far as I know. (That's why I left him off the list.) Shadow said that the only time he visited Masako's dreams was that one time in Urado. Although Masako knows that Gene is dead, she genuinely believed that Noll was the one visiting her them. Later on, Masako can see Gene in the mirror like Noll does, but I don't think she can interact with him. (I'm hoping Shadow will clarify that somewhat.)


Runesque- 03-13-2007
QUOTE (LKK @ March 13, 2007 08:42 pm)
The only thing I have noticed about Naru's speech is that he tends to refer himself using "boku" rather than the more arrogant and common for his age and gender "ore".

He knows he's better than your typical 17-year-old ^^. He wouldn't use the largely unrefined "ore" to refer to himself if it puts him in the same group as those lesser intellectuals (not my own words!) - now that's arrogant. Young, full of life, fun-loving, imperfect, romance-seeking... young. I don't think Naru wants those words associated with him. In a way, he's like an old man past his springtime.

From my observation, a combination of not all but most of the following applies to "boku" characters in general. Remember, these are gross generalisations:

- Effeminate, more often in trait than in appearance (both applies to Naru)
- Goody-two-shoes, sincere or feigned (in Naru's case the term "model student" would be more fitting - does Yasuhara say "boku"?)
- Prim, proper and elegant (check)
- More reserved than rowdy (check)
- Obocchama/young master type, highborn demeanours (check, check, check)
- Like to smile (......)
- Sweet/innocent/juvenile/down-to-earth (...scary)

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Unrelated, but I still truly believe that Tsukimori should say "boku".

YamiKakyuu- 03-13-2007
I always thought "boku" was the correct way of saying it? To switch animes for a sec when Suzaku first appears in Code Geass he uses "ore" and kinda gets made fun of for saying it which makes him make the effort to start saying "boku" then again my knowledge of Japanese is slim to none but I thought "ore" was geared more toward younger boys, though it is unrefined. I know Ichigo says it in Bleach but since it is considered unrefined, I know Naru wouldnt use it animeasylum/yay.gif

LKK- 03-13-2007
Ore is a more arrogant, braggart's way of saying "me" from what I understand. It's most commonly used by older teen boys who have a great deal self-confidence and a high opinion of themself.

Ichigo of Bleach is a good example.

Ban Mido of Get Backers refers to himself as "ore-sama"!

Runesque- 03-13-2007
QUOTE (YamiKakyuu @ March 14, 2007 10:18 am)
To switch animes for a sec when Suzaku first appears in Code Geass he uses "ore" and kinda gets made fun of for saying it which makes him make the effort to start saying "boku" then again my knowledge of Japanese is slim to none but I thought "ore" was geared more toward younger boys, though it is unrefined.

Exactly! I've always remembered Suzaku as a "boku" character as opposed to "ore"!Lelouch, however you just reminded me that in his second first meeting with Lelouch he definitely says "ore". I haven't taken any notice, but does he really shift to "boku" at one point?

Yeah, "ore" gives the impression of brashness and recklessness, eg. Ichigo of Bleach. Not the kind of self-confident image that Naru is after; he's a perfectionist remember? Now, to relist the GH cast and their references to self:

Mai: Atashi
Naru/Gene: Boku
Lin: Watashi (very fitting)
John: Boku
Takigawa: Ore
Ayako: Atashi
Masako: Atakushi (also fitting)
Yasuhara: Boku (I think. Correct me?)
Madoka: ?

YamiKakyuu- 03-14-2007
QUOTE (Runesque @ March 13, 2007 10:45 pm)
Exactly! I've always remembered Suzaku as a "boku" character as opposed to "ore"!Lelouch, however you just reminded me that in his second first meeting with Lelouch he definitely says "ore". I haven't taken any notice, but does he really shift to "boku" at one point?

Yeah, "ore" gives the impression of brashness and recklessness, eg. Ichigo of Bleach. Not the kind of self-confident image that Naru is after; he's a perfectionist remember? Now, to relist the GH cast and their references to self:

Mai: Atashi
Naru/Gene: Boku
Lin: Watashi (very fitting)
John: Boku
Takigawa: Ore
Ayako: Atashi
Masako: Atakushi (also fitting)
Yasuhara: Boku (I think. Correct me?)
Madoka: ?

Suzaku does shift to "boku" I dont remember when I remember seeing it mentioned on AS. Im surprised Lulu doesnt say "ore" but again with his background and narcissist ways I see why he says "boku" I think Light from DN says "boku" too. So if youre smart, sexy and narcissist you need to say "boku" instead of "ore" animeasylum/yay.gif

Im kinda surprised bou-san says "ore" Id find it fitting that Lin uses "watashi" since L from DN also uses that.

LKK- 03-14-2007
Shadow Dreams told me that Naru doesn't understand Japanese idioms terribly well. This makes sense because idioms are usually expressions you pick up from living in the culture. Not stuff that's taught in formal school training. Since Naru hasn't lived in Japan very long, he wouldn't necessarily know the idioms of the country.

If we extend that thought process a little farther, Naru hasn't been exposed to teenage Japanese boys who use "ore" to refer to themself. He wouldn't have picked up that habit from his older friends, for example. He was most likely taught that the proper way to refer to himself would be "boku". Since Naru grew up outside of Japan, "boku" was probably all he ever heard used for Japanese male self-reference.

YamiKakyuu- 03-14-2007
Ummm since Im not always clear on ways one can refer to themselves whats the different bwtn "atashi" and "atakushi" since Rune said it was fitting for Masako blink.gif

LKK- 03-14-2007
I was wondering that myself. How's about a little Japanese lesson, Rune?

honeysempai- 03-14-2007
Here Yami a guide to I/Me.


* 私 watashi - the safest and most common version of "I", polite; can be used by both men and women. ()
* あたし atashi - Mostly used by young females; sounds girlish and kawaii ()
* 私 watakushi - the most formal and modest version; can still be heard in movies or TV series.
* 私atakushi - ditto.
* 私 atai - Slang version of "Atashi"
* 僕 boku - Polite, Popular among younger men. Sounds more refined than "Ore", more manly yett less humble than "Watashi" - the kanji 僕(shimobe) means servant - *[1] For example, in Bleach, Kurosaki uses "Ore" in refer to himself while Ishida uses "Boku"; or in Naruto, Sasuke uses "Boku" and Naruto uses "Ore"; in Saiyuki, Hakkai uses "Boku" but the rest of the gang use "Ore". [2] Some girls use Boku instead of Watashi as well; mostly these are strong and tom-boyish gals, like ()
* 俺 ore - the most direct way to refer to oneself; may sound rude and wild to older people or those who of a higher social class; within one's own age range may also sound straight-forward, cocky and manly; Popular among young guys. ()
* わし washi - mostly used by old men ojiisan; there are younger men who use "Washi" too, and it will have amusing effect on the others. *In Bleach, Yuruichi uses Washi which leads to the misunderstanding about her gender (well she was a cat, who could tell?) and made her first apparition in human body so shocking...
* あっし asshi - Slang for "Washi"; from Edo period until now; mostly used by men.
* てまえ temae - Mostly used by the merchant class in the Edo period; very humble.
* 拙者 sessha - Mostly used by samurai in Edo period; means "stupid person", very humble.
* おら ora - Mostly used by children and Crayon Shin-chan; childish version of "Ore"; sounds cute if you're no older than 5.
* うら ura - Mostly used by men in Fukui prefecture.
* 我が輩 wagahai - Rarely in use; sounds self-conscious and amusing. * It's the "I" form used by the main narrator, the cynic cat, of Natsume Soseki's book, Wagahai wa Neko de Aru ( I Am a Cat)
* 我が waga - this actually means 'my.' Used in speeches and formalities. Still used in the meaning of "my" or "our" (eg : わが国 = my/our country).
* 我 ware - Quite formal and polite, but old-fashioned (except plural "wareware", used in a humble way to talk about one's company).
* うち uchi - Mostly used by women and in Osaka dialect.
* 自分Jibun - Neutral. Refers to the "self", so can be use for "I" or "you". 自分の means "my" or "your" and 自分で means "myself" or "youself".
* 己 Onore: Mostly used by men. Sounds somewhat arrogant and impolite. Also means "self" or "you" (see "Jibun").
* 某 soregashi - used by samurai in the Edo Period (Obsolete)
* わて Wate : Kansai dialect for "Watashi".
* 朕 Chin : Used by emperors or kings; In case commonplace Joe uses "Chin", it will result in laughters.
* 乃公 Daikou : Literary. Mainly used by men when speaking in an haughty way.
* 妾 Warawa : Ancient form of "Watakushi", used only by women - the kanji means concubine, as in reference to a woman; very polite.
* 俺様 Oresama : Even more arrogant than "Ore", coz "Sama" is a term to show respect, like sir, master, lord etc in English. Using "Sama" to modify "Ore" can transgress the limit so be cautious with this phrase! *In BOY II, Hareluya who proclaims that his dream is to conquer the world uses "Oresama" instead of "Ore"; in Bleach, the little stuffed lion Kon calls himself oresama too.

YamiKakyuu- 03-14-2007
wow honey thanks for that!

I like how "boku" can be used by girls who are considered tomboys since if you look in my sig you can see that I use it animeasylum/whistling.gif

hmmmm never noticed that Kon uses ore-sama, Ill have to listen better next time. Naruto and Sasuke dont surprise me tho animeasylum/yay.gif

LKK- 03-14-2007
QUOTE (honeysempai @ March 14, 2007 04:16 pm)
* 俺様 Oresama : Even more arrogant than "Ore", coz "Sama" is a term to show respect, like sir, master, lord etc in English. Using "Sama" to modify "Ore" can transgress the limit so be cautious with this phrase!

That description fits Ban Mido to a T.

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